"The New System will most likely come before the year 2000."
This was said by a C.O. at a Circuit Assembly in the early 1990s after the Soviet Union fell. His last name was Cook...can't remember his first name.
Ultimate Reality
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Reality
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the dumbest thing a CO ever said
by nowwhat? in"if it was'nt for the preaching work there would be millions more witnesses" - he was saying jehovah wants quality not quantity.. si i'm thinking, what's the difference as long as he has a people that live by bible standards and are moral.
maybe sharing their hope and faith with friends and relatives on a casual basis?
how backwards is that?.
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Rick Simons' Opposition to WTS Motion in Conti case is brilliant--Check it out @ Alameda Sup Ct Website
by DNCall in -
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Ultimate Reality
Is this actually the court's decision or are these copies of the proposed request with a possible ruling on November 8?
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2012 Annual Meeting: MORE notes...
by Ultimate Reality infrom a reliable source...provides further confirmation on the gb's new status.
these are from the symposium part on the new light.. .
jeoff jackson - how is spiritual food prepared?.
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Ultimate Reality
This makes an even bigger mess of Matthew 24, the Generation, and their continuing with a Parallel Dispensations model of interpretation. But it also means that their chronology based on 607 BCE + 2520 Years of Gentile Times = 1914 + the 1919 "appointment" will remain and become even more important once they put all this into print in the coming months.
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2012 Annual Meeting: MORE notes...
by Ultimate Reality infrom a reliable source...provides further confirmation on the gb's new status.
these are from the symposium part on the new light.. .
jeoff jackson - how is spiritual food prepared?.
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Ultimate Reality
From a reliable source...provides further confirmation on the GB's new status. These are from the Symposium part on the New Light.
Jeoff Jackson - How Is Spiritual Food Prepared?
2 principles; 1: Dan12:4 Always make continuous, careful search. 2:. 1Co r4:6, 'don't go beyond the things that are written'. Where do the ideas come from(always asked). There is no hole in the ceiling of the GB conference room! Receive reports from branchs, Zone, and other travelling overseers. Also the GB are constantly reading the bible personally. Others assist in writing. All editorial work is 'closely supervised' by GB. All GB read 2 or 3 times all the material before it is dispensed. Key Point- When an individual GB member submits an article, it is not spiritual food until it undergoes at least 70 steps. [In a later talk by Bro. Splane, he admitted that some of his articles after submission needed 'life support and some didn't make it'].Thereby no one member of GB can influence matters on his own. What if question about current understanding of a truth? GB assign brothers to research, then GB reconsider, pray about it. "No yes men on the GB". Robust discussion. "If GB can't all agree, matter put on hold. Some things are put on hold for years, until ALL are moved by HS!!" [Wonder what other things are in the 'pending file'. One brother at HQ said to me afterwards that there are quite a few! Who knows how long this knew thought on Matt24 was in the pending file??] Need to show courage to change our understanding of long held, sometime cherished beliefs. EG brothers with Xmas, cross and birthdays. Keep in mind that the truth hasn't changed, only our understanding of it!
Gerrit Losch- Which Channel Is Jehovah Using?
Mt 24:45-47 and Lu 12, uses the definite article tho' with reference to F&DS. Therefore is composite and does not apply to individual anointed ones nor to Gc. Other references in bible refer to individuals being slaves and stewards, but not THE slave/steward. Old thought was that F&DS were anointed at any given time from 33CE to now. However through the middle ages, no distinct knowledge as to who they were. Also because at 33 there were no GC we believed the 'domestics' had to be individual anointed. Is the F&DS 1900 yrs old? No! [The lecture to Gilead and branch schools about this has now been deleted].When you look at the context of Matt 24 all the events described are in the last days and the GT. The 'coming' referred to is the GT. Hence the F&DS only appeared and was appointed as such in the last days!
Do all the anointed share in providing food? - No! Reference to 'food' refers to preparing and originating spiritual food. The GB only, oversees spir feeding. Can't apply to anointed sisters living thousands of miles away. Besides, Bethel does not have a list of all anointed in world, only those in special fulltime service. Back in jerusalem the GB wouldn't have consulted with all the anointed living in various places throughout the Roman empire!
Guy Pearce- When Will These Things Be?
In view of Dan 12:4, expect changes in thinking! F&DS come into existence after 1914. Wheat and Weeds parable indicates be no slave class to dispense food (only be individual anointed ones who maintained their faith). The work of Russell & associates like that of the messenger in Ma13:1. But they not part of slave class. Old thought of messenger was 1914-18 based on jC cleaning temple 3 yrs after his anointing. However the bible lists 2 accounts of jC cleansing - one at the start and one at the end of his ministry. Hence the cleansing of God's people is ongoing. Mt 24:30,42,44 all refer to je's future 'coming' in judgment at the GT. Therefore the next verses that refer to the appointment of the F&DS is at - 1919 not 33ce!
Samuel Herd - Feeding ... ?
Pattern established with 'feeding' by je. Matt 14:14-21, .....YOU give them something to eat..." Same in later account in MT15:36. Pattern - jC to disciples to crowds. Lesson - jesus always fed the Many thru the Few! jesus always chose the few. He chose the 12 apostles, were imperfect. He was grooming them for a future office of oversight. Later used these men to serve as GB. Later used other men, Act 16:4,5. Blessed arrangement, till death of apostles who acted as a 'restraint'. Then apostasy flourished. During that time, no consistent channel existed. Only changed after 1914 when the 'growing season' ended. Now the 'harvest' time needed an organized channel to do the feeding. However, the same pattern - jC would feed the many thru the few!
Stephen Lett - Who Really Is the F&D Slave?
Question suggests that there would be a legitimate desire to know as to many confusing options. At 33CE no one would have need to raise the question, the answer was beyond doubt. There was simply a singular Christian entity that was performing miraculous signs and distributing spir food. However, from 1914 onwards, there were many imitation Christians. Who then would prove to be the F&D Slave?- Now the question was valid even crucial! Those within priestly class would prove to dispense food. Not all anointed are F&DS. New thought as to: F&DS - Small group of anointed Christians, living at Head Quarters, during Christ's presence, who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritualfood. Note- Individual members are not F&DS. Only when they work as a body are they such! Greek word is composite singular. Domestics - All who are fed spiritually. Originally from 1919 it was only anointed, later it includes the Great Crowd, also individual members of the GB. Belongings - All his belongings both heavenly and earthly. The verse does not limit the belongings to the earth. After the appointment of the F&DS in 1919, there would be a period of time to establish who is the slave class. Then they would be give ALL his belongings. This happens during the GT when the anointed go to heaven to receive their heavenly reward. Why does the verse seem to limit this to only the F&DS. It doesn't- jC was in this instance simply talking to the F&DS, hence the reference to them receiving 'ALL Belongings'. However by referring to such, he was not limiting the ALL Belongings to just the GB members, it was simply a case of who he was addressing at the time. Lu 22:28-30 is a promise to all faithful anointed.
David Splane - What Does All This Mean? Matt24:45-7 has no first century application. Apostles were dispensing spiritual food, but not as a F&DS. Slave is not 1900 yrs old. Russell's time- F&DS was being formed / taking shape. Illus- M.S approaching eldership, may do much of the work of an elder, but is not an elder until the appointment. Similar to Russell and associates, they were doing a feeding work, but the appointment as F&DS was later. This new understanding now truly dignifies the GC and unites them with the GB, as ALL need to be fed!! Remember - jah & jC are the source ofthe food. Don't getto hung up on individual members of GB.
Favourite saying of jeoff jackson- HI love coffee, I have my favourite cup. But ifthe cup gets broken- I won't stop drinking coffee"! If something happens to individual members of GB or they die - it won't stop us drinking at j's table.
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2012 annual meeting notes
by lostinthought insorry for the wait guys.... .
part one.
moorse had the opening comments talked about historic annual meetings.. .
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Ultimate Reality
As many of us have discussed over the past few years, they have been planning this and now it looks like New Light will be officially seen during the 2013 Service Year; as discussed in a post from 2009: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/173385/1/Who-really-is-the-slave-The-Governing-Body
Paragraph three from the February 15, 2009 Watchtower in the article They "Keep Following The Lamb":
"Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave "over his domestics ," that is, the individual members of the slave class..."
The WT has been redefining certain terms (like the "Slave" or "Generation"), which then causes a general confusion among members, and lastly the GB comes to the rescue with clarification. Usually over a period of months...or in this case years.
The GB must be deparate to concentrate their power and control and rid themselves of those pesky growing numbers of annointed who think they also have a direct line to God.
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Who is Charles Sunutko...more
by Farkel insince there is renewed interest in the 1975 fiasco and one of it's main promoters, i discovered something interesting.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/103129/1/who-is-charles-sunutko.
in the above thread blondie posted an except from an awake!
magazine article on old chuck s. in it, he stated he was born one year after his parents married in 1935, viz.
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Ultimate Reality
I met him in 1998 and he was still alive, living in Southern California.
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The Great Tribulation - For Whom, & By Whom?
by The Searcher inthere is much speculation about many aspects of the great tribulation.
since it is in god's word the bible that we are informed of this event, then we should allow him to give us any relevant information regarding that event, if that is his wish.. the scripture tells us, "for the sovereign lord jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.
" (amos 3:7).
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Ultimate Reality
You're also conflating scriptures. What does Jeremiah 25 have to do with Revelation?
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Scholastic Dishonesty - June 2012 Awake - Jewish Exile Timeline
by Ultimate Reality inthe june 2012 awake has another article on the exile of the jews by the babylonians.
once again the wt quotes dishonestly.. .
from page 14:.
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Ultimate Reality
@diamondiiz -- Thanks for posting that link. I guess they just keep recycling the same non-sense.
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Scholastic Dishonesty - June 2012 Awake - Jewish Exile Timeline
by Ultimate Reality inthe june 2012 awake has another article on the exile of the jews by the babylonians.
once again the wt quotes dishonestly.. .
from page 14:.
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Ultimate Reality
The June 2012 Awake has another article on the exile of the Jews by the Babylonians. Once again the WT quotes dishonestly.
From Page 14:
"Did the Israelites remain captive in Babylon for 70 years as the Bible foretold? Note the comments of a leading Israeli archaeologist, Ephraim Stern. “From 604 B.C.E. to 538 B.C.E.—there is a complete gap in evidence suggesting occupation. In all that time, not a single town destroyed by the Babylonians was resettled.” The so-called gap in which there was no occupation or resettling of conquered territory corresponds closely to Israel’s exile in Babylon from from 607 to 537 B.C.E.—2 Chronicles 36:20, 21." - Awake, June 2012, p. 14
What the article fails to mention is that under the WT interpretation of the period's dating, all 'secular' dates get pushed back by 20 years. 604 BCE becomes 624 BCE. They are misuing the quote by Stern to bolster their chronological arguments by relying on the ignorance of the reader reagarding both that period of history and the WT's method of calculating the dates -- which they do not disclose.
Futher, here is an excerpt from the opening of Stern's article:
"In 586 B.C.E., they [Babylon] burnt Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple, bringing an end to the southern Kingdom of Judah and 400 years of Davidic rule." - The Babylonian Gap, Ephraim Stern, Biblical Archaeology Review; Nov/Dec 2000
Obviously, Stern is yet another expert the WT is using who does not agree that the Termple was destroyed in 607 BCE. Further, the WT cannot honestly use secular dates from that period to 'prove' it's own conflicted interpretation.
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Opinion-Is This Clear Evidence that Jehovah's Holy Spirit is with The Watchtower?
by DavinciCodeBreaker ini was having a discussion with an aquaintance about if there was evidence that the watchtower has jehovah's holy spirit.
he said, "given the fact that no other organization has won more supreme court cases than jehovah's witnesses to protect their religious freedom in north america and abroad is unrefutable evidence of jehovah's blessing by means of his holy spirit".. your thoughts?.
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Ultimate Reality
Correlation does not mean causation. You're friend displays the typical lazy thinking of a Witness. The WT says it has God's backing (and Spirit) because is was appointed in 1918. Have him prove that...scripturally.